Australian Critics of Scientology
This page maintained by David Gerard.

Cyril Vosper interview

3-RRR Liars' Club, 10am-11am Sun 03 Sep 1995

This is the Liars' Club show of 03 Sep 1995, the one which the Church of Scientology managed to get nailed as 'vilification'. Please read it and tell me what the heck here can be classed as actual 'vilification'. (Merely saying negative things about an organisation or group is not 'vilification'. Nor is comparing an organisation to Nazis - break Godwin's law as it might - if you can back it up.)

This transcript is taken from the Australian Broadcasting Authority report on the show, so should be reliable - haven't checked it against the tape of the show. This would be the actual transcript the ABA used in classing the show as 'vilification'.

The transcript appears to be syllable-by-syllable. I am entering it unedited, except for typing spoken words in upper- and lower-case (the original report had all spoken words in capitals) and typing 'it's' as 'it's', rather than 'its'. 'Perogative' in the second paragraph is the way it's spelt in the original report, as is the variable spelling of 'program/programme'.

There's also a few glitches of detail (Melbourne is not the Australian headquarters, that sort of thing) but the alt.religion.scientology regulars should be able to handle this okay.

The earlier demo referred to was Damian Pope and Cyril Vosper outside the Melbourne CoS in May 1995.

'The Helen Demidenko affair' is about the dubious author of a novel and is nothing to do with Scientology. Almost the entire show was taken up with talkback callers ranting about Demidenko, and Cyril's bit had to be shoved in at the end.


3 September 1995

JOSEPH: The Liar's Club: where we look at things very sceptically.

Some months ago there was a demonstration outside the headquarters, Russell Street, of the Church of Scientology. Now apparently, there is another one coming up very, very soon. So in the course of the next hour, we'll be talking to the organiser of that and no doubt we'll get howls of protest from the Church of Scientology as we normally do every time we mention their name. It's their perogative, I suppose ...

[Long discussion with guest and talk back calls on the Helen Demidenko affair follows]

JOSEPH: Just to prove that people do think for themselves, we are going to talk to Cyril Vosper in just a moment about that demonstration we mentioned is coming up in the Church of Scientology headquarters, that is outside the Church of Scientology headquarters.

[Continued talk back calls re Helen Demidenko]

JOSEPH: Cyril Vosper back in the seventies wrote a book about Scientology and just to give a very brief background Cyril used to be in the hierarchy in London as one of the Scientologists and decided to leave and wrote a book and the Church of Scientology took him to court to try to prevent the book being published, and he had all sorts of difficulty. Came out to Australia, lives, and he's on the line now.

JOSEPH: Now you are doing it again. What's the occasion this time? You're a bugger for punishment.

VOSPER: Yes, I agree. The thing is it isn't just me and just Melbourne. These are being held all over the world outside every Scientology organisation and it is to ... In order to try to bring to the attention of the public the fact that Scientology is using pretty sort of nasty methods to silence people, really. And has done this for years and it is about time this were [sic] known widely.

JOSEPH: Ought you also mention ... When is this taking place?

VOSPER: It's happening next Saturday morning.

JOSEPH: You obviously want some people to join you but why should people want to join you, I suppose is the obvious question?

VOSPER: Well, you know, Scientology takes all the advantages of living in a democratic society and in fact is working against democracy. I mean there isn't any freedom or democracy in the organisation itself.

JOSEPH: They would dispute that, wouldn't they?

VOSPER: They would, but over the years (in) a huge number of court cases against them nearly all of the judges and all of the findings have said this is an illegal or unfair group that doesn't allow its members to have freedoms. I mean, my first marriage was completely destroyed by Scientology.

JOSEPH: Yes, I know.

VOSPER: And I don't believe we should allow things to carry on ... Keep in mind I don't think it's anything on the same level as things happening in Bosnia and that sort of things ... but I think it's serious at the same time.

JOSEPH: Yes, and it's been called "mind control" and all sorts of things.


JOSEPH: And there's been enough books written on it ... What was the name of your book, by the way?

VOSPER: "The Mind Benders".

JOSEPH: When was that?

VOSPER: 1971.

JOSEPH: That would have made you one of the very, very first people to get out of Scientology and lambast the group with a book.

VOSPER: Yes, I think I was the first to get out of Scientology. I was one of the first. A lot of other groups and newspapers had had goes at them, but I think I was the first that got out of them and actually turned on them.

JOSEPH: And they still keep on sending out information about you, warning people about you for being a terrible, nasty person ... a deprogrammer with a criminal record, kidnapping and all that sort of thing ... and you did spend time in gaol in Germany I understand.

VOSPER: Yeah. I was on remand. I was arrested in Germany. I was arrested in Spain also, but in both instances ... certainly the one in Spain, it only lasted a day and that was a frame-up ... and the one in Germany was a frame-up.

JOSEPH: And was it actually proven to be a frame-up at the end of the day?

VOSPER: The one in Spain, yes. The Spanish police reported it to the British police and to various other authorities in Europe. And Germany I don't know. I mean, in Germany it looks as though Scientology is going to be banned and I would like to have an explanation from the German authorities of what they were doing in my case because that area in southern Bavaria is the place where Nazism got its big break and there's a lot in common between Nazism and the Scientologists, believe you me.

JOSEPH: That's a pretty heavy claim ... Look no doubt they'll be on the phone complaining as per usual after this program purely and simply because you've been on the program. That's happened every single time in fact we've ... This program's had more complaints against it from the Scientologists even though we've had them on this program as well and probably we will have again and believe you have the right because of your personal close experience for many, many years and as you said it destroyed your entire family.

VOSPER: The thing is that they want so called "freedom" to have their say, but they won't allow other people to do so. They've got at the moment in America, 4 people that they've organised raids on their property, they've lied, they've done all sorts of things to get the police, the authorities to take stuff out of people's property. These are opponents of Scientology and it is absurd sort of work going on in a group that takes advantage of living in a democracy. We've discussed it before and we shouldn't allow our freedoms to be ...

JOSEPH: No. [introduction of Vosper to Ms Holgate, the other guest on the programme] It can be argued that it doesn't matter what's wrong with an organisation that organisation should have the right to operate and as long as people do something with their own free will regardless of whether they spend all their money that should also be their right if they're silly enough to do that.

VOSPER: That's right but the people who do these things ... I don't believe those people know the full truth of the thing.

JOSEPH: And that's what you're going to demonstrate outside Scientology at next Saturday ... So that's Russell Street.

VOSPER: 42 Russell Street.

JOSEPH: Bring your lunch. Good luck, Cyril Vosper.

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