Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:52:17 -0400 From: elrond@cgo.wave.ca (Gregg Hagglund) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re:Purported Claim of Unauthorized Use of Copyrighted Materials Message-ID: Organization: ESI Council NNTP-Posting-Host: cgowave-7-50.cgocable.net Lines: 244 (Posted and Mailed) I find it hard to believe any real Lawyer would possibly think that anyone with half a brain would accept as valid any purported legal document or claim sent via the common and easily manipulated medium of e-mail. However, since the infamous Ms. Kobrin has been known to audit tomatoes and command ashtrays to fly, it is not an impossibility that this is a real posting. >Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (hkk@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) > by mail.cgocable.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29637 > for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:51:39 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (from hkk@localhost) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) > id PAA07931; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:51:15 -0700 >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT) >From: Helena Kobrin >Subject: Unauthorized Use of Copyrighted Materials >To: elrond@cgo.wave.ca >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >X-UIDL: d1e570ce526a71ae8c2e09d53d05b961 > > > > >Dear Mr. Hagglund: > > I represent Religious Technology Center ("RTC"), the owner of the confidential >Advanced Technology of the Scientology religion and the holder of exclusive rights under the >copyrights applicable to the Advanced Technology materials. The Advanced Technology >materials are confidential, unpublished, copyrighted works. RTC's works include, among others, >the individual works comprising a level known as "NOTs." > > You posted to alt.religion.scientology, and nl.scientology RTC's copyrighted materials, >known as "NOTs Series No. 7" using the following message ID: > > elrond-0906971705360001@cgowave-7-50.cgocable.net > > These works have been posted to these newsgroups without the authorization of my >client. The works are registered with the US Copyright Office under registration numbers TXu >257326 and 257527. > > These postings violate United States and Canadian copyright law. We therefore request that it be removed immediately. > > We are currently involved in litigation over the same and similar materials in several >lawsuits. Preliminary injunctions based on copyright infringement and trade secret >misappropriation are in place in three of those suits in the United States District Court in San >Jose, California. And a United States District Court in the state of Virginia has granted >judgment in favor of my client, related to copyright infringement of some of these works. > > We are not seeking to become involved in litigation, but we will take all necessary >measures to protect my client's intellectual property rights. We presume that you would agree >that we can resolve this amicably. > > Please confirm that this posting has been removed. > > Sincerely, > Helena Kobrin > Dear Ms. Kobrin, As I believe you are known to be one of the 'lawyers' of the RTC I will have to express my extreme disappointment in receiving your communique. It is a common legal concession in both Canada and the U.S.A. that electronic communications of this sort are not legal notification of any kind and are simply done for the sake of harassment. According to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, the purpose of litigation "is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the the edge anyway, well knowing that his is not authorised, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly." Should you wish to contact me again please do so by regular post as I shall be configuring my E-Mail software to filter anything further from you or any other of the list of known RTC legal representatives. As to the content of your communique, I am equally disappointed to receive such misinformation from a purported legal representative of the RTC. I am not foolish enough to accept any claim of legal copyright from anyone on any material which I can buy for 60 Kroner, by mail, from the Swedish Parliament. Material which has been available for over half a year on the Internet! First I would like to point out, since I have no resource guide to consult as to what is actually a true document originating from those documents which RTC claims copyright from, I must point out to you that any claim made by you of copyright will have to be accompanied by a Canadian Court certified original of same before I may be compelled to withdraw anything from the Internet. Second, I would add as well, that it is hardly possible for I or anyone else to constantly check for possible copyrights on any Usenet posting if such documents are not readily available in the public library or a book store. It is also impractical and ludicrous to suggest, or imply, that I, or anyone else, must needs spend considerable time and effort checking the authenticity of and authority of the content of any Usenet posting which I do not originate. Third, I would point out since many Usenet providers do not accept or recognize cancels, then any effort I would make to cancel any message I have originated would be less than perfect and therefore pointless in a medium whereby such a message may be disseminated repeatedly in quotations until the end of time. Fourth, I am not bound by any court injunction made in any case which RTC is a part of in any jurisdiction outside of the one I reside: Ontario Canada. Fifth, as you are well aware RTC has conceded in the current litigations that it has no answer to the KOLT RULING that recognises the NOTS series as a work for hire owned by CSC, which, despite being a bankrupt corporation and in debt to one L. Wollersheim for a sum exceeding 5 million US dollars, was able to loan the CoS Toronto Org several millions to pay its fines for Criminal acts and Libel Awards against it. Therefore I would expect to receive a communique from you, via the regular posts which accomplishes the following: 1. A Canadian Court Certified copy of the court ruling in the United States that overturns the KOLT RULING or recognises that CSC transferred such rights to the RTC and the date of that transfer and the *clear acceptance* by a U.S. Court that such transfer was legal. Subsequently: 2. A Canadian Court certified copy of "NOTs Series No. 7" which clearly establishes the RTC copyright as valid pursuant to 1., above. Further, if we do not wish to go through this dance eternally, then I suggest you either provide to me Canadian Court certified copies of all copyrighted materials held by the RTC which are not affected by the KOLT RULING or, should you be able to fulfil 1. above, then provide me with all RTC copyrighted material. This material should be on CD ROM in Power Mac Native Code. I will then be able to effectively screen any Usenet posting for its copyright content as an automatic process via a filtering program. The costs of same I would expect you to bear as it is your obligation to show bonafide and legal claim to copyright of any document which is not readily available to the public in a recognisable and open manner. Otherwise one might as well expect individuals to be able to read the minds of RTC lawyers to ascertain the validity of and copyright of unavailable material. In the alternative, RTC might chose to communicate to me the authenticity of those documents available on the Internet and through the Swedish Parliament as true accurate copies of documents RTC claims legitimate copyrights upon, provided of course you first satisfy 1., above. It will, of course be interesting to read any explanation that RTC may have for requesting anyone, including myself, to refrain from publicly examining or commenting on in the Usenet Medium any such documents which have been and continue to be disseminated, unobstructed by the RTC, in the public domain of the the Internet and the State of Sweden by its Parliament. I, too, do not wish to become involved in time wasting litigation, however, since it is your position that I should comply with what you claim to be a simple request to accomplish two impossibilities, that is 'unring a bell' and discern the hidden ownership of the content of every quoted Usenet post I encounter, then it becomesyour obligation to make these impossibilities either worth attempting or possible at all. Lastly, I would like to caution you and your clients to become more familiar with Canadian Law as it has currently evolved in our courts in particular to the Church of Scientology and its associated business ventures. One should note that the largest libel settlement in Canadian History was wrung from the CoS Toronto by a Crown Counsel; and the Ontario Court of Appeal has ruled in effect that criminal acts performed *by* members or employees of the Church of Scientology *for* the benefit of the Church of Scientology are to be considered as criminal acts *of* the Church of Scientology. Some of these criminal acts for which the Church of Scientology was found responsible for and paid fines for, involved the infiltration of and espionage upon leading Law Firms here in Toronto. And they will accept Legal Aid for which I am qualified as my only assets are my tools of trade which by Canadian law may not be lost by me as a result of the necessity of financing a Defence or launching an Action or to satisfy any Judgment. This includes my computer as, amongst many things I am a contract computer artist. So now that you have threatened me and tried to 'shudder me' me into silence and I have indicated to you that it is neither likely or possible that you will be able to do so without incredible cost, no possible recompense and every likelihood of your clients losing any countersuit for frivolous and malicious prosecution, then there is only one simple recourse for you to take. Just order the OSA to provide you with a copy of the cancel my post which they already have done themselves. That should satisfy the needs and claims of your client RTC. The rest has been all an automatic act of intimidation. Yours truly, Gregg SP4 http://www.cgocable.net/~elrond -- " I'm sure it's obvious to all who read my stuff, that I have serious problems when it comes to being able to communicate." - -RonsAmigo, Official OSA Shill on ARS $cientology Lawyer Bait: Co$ cures Cancer?: "Step Four - Cures for Illness You will now find BTs and clusters being cures for illnesses of the body part. Handle all such BTs and clusters by blowing them off. 'Cures for Illness' will then cease to read." --- ררר L.R.Hubbard (c) ??? ---